Maren interviews Vanessa Ogbuehi, director, actor, and creative person extraordinaire. They talk about opera, musicals, books, and how we can learn to set our own standards of success.
Books recommended in this episode:
Follow Maren on Instagram: @supermaren
Follow Vanessa on Instagram: @heytherenessy
Purchase Maren’s debut book, Pandemic Passion: A COVID-19 novella on Kindle: https://amzn.to/3guGck0
Transcript
(orchestra tuning)
Hello and welcome to The Bodice Ripper Project, an exploration of sexuality, feminism, and the journey to self-empowerment through the lens of romance novels.
I’m Maren Montalbano, opera singer, coach, and writer.
In this episode, you’ll hear me interview Vanessa Ogbuehi, the director for my one-woman show, The Bodice Ripper Project. We talk about opera, musicals, books, and learning how to set our own standards of success.
So make yourself comfortable, loosen your bodice, and let’s begin!
(intro music plays)
Welcome. And thank you so much for pressing play. I’m going to keep this brief because we’ve got a really long interview coming up and I do try to keep these episodes between 20 and 30 minutes. I think I’m going to go over 30 minutes for this one.
But thank you so much for those of you who gave me feedback on A Flemish Flame. I’m so glad you enjoy it. And it gives me a lot of motivation to keep writing and finish the story for you. In fact, I’d better get writing while you enjoy this interview. Have fun!
Interview
MAREN: I am so excited to have on the show Vanessa Ogbuehi, a director, actor, creative person extraordinaire. Vanessa Ogbuehi is a Philadelphia based artist, making original devised theater since 2015. Through crooning melodies, tulle gowns, and the intimacy of small spaces, Vanessa’s work invites audiences to celebrate the stories of extraordinary women whose lessons of defiance and resourcefulness have been forgotten.
She recently received her graduate certificate in devised performance from the Pig Iron School and is eager to continue working on challenging projects. So thank you so much for joining us.
VANESSA: Of course, I’m happy to be here.
MAREN: I believe I may have talked about you at one point or another on some previous episodes I was talking about my one woman show because you are the director of the Bodice Ripper Project.
VANESSA: I am! Wow. I can’t believe that was just a couple of months ago.
MAREN: Yeah, it’s weird. I’m recording this in December, but it’s going to air in January, but still, it feels like, okay, we did that at the beginning of October.
And that feels like three years ago.
VANESSA: I know! It feels like, like forever ago. I it’s, it’s still like, you know, the project isn’t done. So it’s like, that was just the first iteration, the first attempt to get the story out there, which feels so good, but it still feels like there’s so much life left in it, but we can’t, we can’t get into the studio yet. So it’s very interesting to start a project and then kind of, it’s still kind of up in the air. It’s still alive.
MAREN: Yeah. It’s so weird. And this is sort of the whole thing about how I’m conceiving of season two of this podcast is that everything is still in flux, right?
There are stories to be told, there are new stories to be written, which I’m doing right now. And there are also more things to explore about what it is to rip your bodice open and, this is part of why I’m talking to people is that I want to see how other people are doing it. How is a creative process taking what you are really, that core of you on the inside, and opening it up so that everybody sees it?
What kind of process is that? How scary is it? What do you do when you’re scared? And all of that good stuff?
VANESSA: Definitely.
MAREN: Yeah. I know. That’s a lot.
VANESSA: I’m not scared!
MAREN: Oh, no! So actually why don’t we just dive right into that? Since I started talking about
VANESSA: Sure, about ripping the bodice, not
MAREN: Yeah, about ripping
VANESSA: You know, it’s not so much – for me where I am in my life and career, it is not so much ripping it out or ripping it off. It’s much more of a, like, one piece gets loosened. And eventually it will come off, but I’m not there yet.
MAREN: Yeah. Like you’re going to take it slow. You know?
VANESSA: Yeah, uh huh. Which some people are better at just, you know, jumping headfirst into their creative lives, their passions. I’m much more analytical. For all the creative work that I do, I’m actually, is it right brained? Right? Is right brain the systems one?
MAREN: Yeah.
VANESSA: I’m actually very right-brained. I like process and systems and I’m very analytical. So creativity is not so much a throw spaghetti at the wall type of thing. And I’m still working on even revealing myself in my work. I’ve gotten to the point where my analytical brain has made me very efficient.
It’s let me learn a lot of tools and let me learn how to put creative work together, but I’m still working on the nuance of it all, on the emotion, on allowing myself and my passions and my ideas and opinions be seen and heard by other people. I find it very scary.
MAREN: Totally.
VANESSA: Right? I’m like, why did I pick this career?
But I think, I think there is something about the journey that I find alluring, and that’s why I keep coming back to it, is that I can’t think of any other profession that lets me tackle this problem in this way that, I’m not very vulnerable, I’m not very open, but I get an opportunity to attempt that or play with that every single day.
And that’s why I keep doing it.
MAREN: That’s amazing. So while we’re talking about, like, why did you get into this? Why did you get into theater? Like, tell us about your story.
VANESSA: Sure. Well, it’s a very winding road, so I hope there’s other people out there who can relate, um, and learn some lessons from me. I got here by – not by accident. I don’t think it was by accident, but it was definitely again like, uh, an inching forward, uh, of putting one foot in the deep end and then attempting to swim. I grew up loving the arts. My mother is an opera singer. She had music blasting all over the place. She’s a wonderful performer.
And so I think I had the bug to perform early, at an early age, but I was very shy. I was, I did not pursue it. I did not have the confidence and grace on stage that my mother did. And I just admired it from afar. I thought it was something that I could not attain. I didn’t have any resources to even begin to explore that side of myself.
So I grew up watching a lot of movie musicals. That was my introduction to theater. I didn’t get to see a lot of theater. I didn’t get to do a lot of theater, but I had movie musicals because you can get those at the library and they’re fun.
MAREN: What is your favorite movie musical? I’m really curious.
VANESSA: Oh, that’s so hard. That’s a really hard question. I think my favorite will always be – oh, I’m about to contradict myself in like three seconds, but I think my favorite will always be Sound of Music.
MAREN: Okay.
VANESSA: There’s just no day I don’t like Sound of Music, and it is, it has all of the charm and elegance and talent that, like, I admire. I mean, it’s Julie Andrews being Julie Andrews and I wanted to be her. And I wanted to be in that scenario. The idea that you can just change your life in any way that you want, that you can just follow a passion and not know, like Fräulein Maria does not really know what to do with herself or know where her place is. But she finds it within a situation that is like, so ridiculous. And she finds love and she finds happiness. And she finds family and community.
Those are all things that I craved as a child. And so anytime I rewatch it, it just kind of takes me back and I’m always inspired. As cheesy as it is!
MAREN: No, that’s great. I mean, you know, there really is something super amazing about that very first opening scene where she’s on the, you know, on the hills and the camera’s like swooping down and she’s turning around and turning around. I mean, it’s like, yeah, the hills are alive!
VANESSA: They are alive. Like, there, there’s such a celebration of life in that movie. And then that story it’s cheesy, but it’s also so real. That’s I think what life can be and should be is, you know, you, it doesn’t mean that you’re free from trials or free from questioning, but there is optimism and the, the hills are alive. You’re alive. You can always go forth and try something.
MAREN: Totally. That’s awesome. So when was the very first time you read a romance novel?
VANESSA: You know, I was a very voracious reader when I was a kid. I am, and I’m sure I picked up romance novels. Like I’m, I’m pretty sure my mom had some Danielle Steels, like, sitting around.
We loved to watch those movies. I like to watch Lifetime movies based on Danielle Steel novels.
The whole canon has been like, created into a movie. It’s great. But I think the first that I ever came encounter with, I was, yeah, I was probably like 13 and I’m not sure it was a romance novel as much as it was just a teen drama. Like, I loved young adult teen romances. I liked their pettiness, their other confusion about asinine topics.
And I was slightly, I was a preteen, so I was reading those books, like, aspirationally. I was like, Oh, I can’t wait till like, I meet my one true love. And am I going to give them a Valentine gift? I don’t know.
MAREN: Right, right. Are we going to go to the homecoming dance together?
VANESSA: Exactly. I thought these books would help me navigate it.
Like I thought they would be like my guide. If I read it earlier, then I’ll know what to expect when I get into high school. And of course, no, they’re obviously not realistic. They were, the characters were much more gutsier than I ever were. I was like, these people are just professing their love, like so openly they’re like having sex. They’re, I was like, oh my gosh! I remember like hiding books from my parents, being like, I don’t want them to see! They did not care, but I was like, no, they can’t know that I’m reading these quote/unquote raunchy novels!
MAREN: Oh man.
VANESSA: Did you discover them early too?
MAREN: Yeah. So my – gosh, I don’t know when my first, the first time I, I read a romance novel was, but it was pretty early, because my mom read them all the time.
So they were all over the house, you know? At least with Danielle Steel, her covers are much more like, just it’s like the, the word, like the title.
VANESSA: Her name is just huge.
MAREN: Right, exactly. But like with the ones that my mom read, they were all like very salacious covers with like, like full on, you know, women in like these like very like, “Oh,” you know, kind of – I loved it.
I loved it. And you know, I felt like, is this, what being in love is like? And, like, oh my goodness, I guess all of the men look like this, right? With their clothes off!
VANESSA: All burly, all very hairy. Or, or no hair at all. Just actually like baby skin.
MAREN: Totally. So, yeah, no, it’s, it was definitely part of my formative years, for sure. So you were a really voracious reader. Do you have like a favorite author or favorite creators or anything like that?
VANESSA: Yeah, you know, I’ve been thinking a lot about like where my inspirations come from, where I draw like creative energy or, or who like who I honestly just want to work with one day, like my wishlist. And you know, I don’t think I have favorite authors. There is one book though that I do – two books. Actually, there’s two books I return to at different points in my life just to see how I think about them. One of them is The Little Princess.
MAREN: Oh! I love that book.
VANESSA: It’s my favorite book. It’s my favorite story. And my favorite protagonist. There’s just something about Sarah and the type of person that she wants to be, that no matter what kind of a situation she finds herself, she still puts kindness and love and imagination at the forefront. And I’ve, I’ve read it at different times of my life: as a child, as a teenager, as an adult.
And you know, like, the older I get, I think the more I will return to it, in fact. There’s just something there.
MAREN: Have you seen the movie? I’m sure you have. With Shirley Temple, right?
VANESSA: Oh, so I’ve seen that one, the Shirley Temple. There was also a remake in the Nineties.
MAREN: Oh, was there?
VANESSA: Yeah. That, that was really great. That one is my favorite, I think it beats the Shirley Temple one.
It’s very, I think there, in the Nineties, I feel like they loved special effects. So there’s just like a lot of like whirlwinds of snow. There’s a lot of like, her imagination. They really like hype it up in a way that they couldn’t in the Shirley Temple movie.
MAREN: Got it.
VANESSA: Highly recommend everyone goes and watch or reads The Little Princess. Don’t underestimate it. It is a children’s book, but it’s, it is really, really good.
So there’s that one. And then there is a book called Fat Kid Rules the World. And that was that’s a young adult novel by K.L. Going is her name. And it’s about this teen who is, I guess he’s morbidly obese. Like that’s how he describes himself, but he loves punk rock and he wants to become a punk rock drummer.
And the book starts with him, like, about to jump in front of a bus because he hates his life so much until this punk rock guitarist pushes him out of the way. And that starts a lifelong friendship where they learn about each other. They learn about what it is to be cool and popular. And there’s an ethos to punk rock that I love. I listened to a lot of punk in, in high school, and the DIY elements of it, like still resonate very deeply with me. That you can kind of take matters into your own hands, that you are capable and you have agency and you can kind of make the life that you want for yourself.
That is an ethos that I still follow today. Those are the two books I read every so often from my childhood that I am surprised at how much they really get me.
MAREN: That’s amazing. And you know, it’s so interesting to hear you talk about both of those books, because there really is a lot of similarity. These children who have dreams and imaginations that, that transcend their current circumstance.
And it’s so important to have that as you move through life, as a value. I feel like a lot of the things that get me through the hard times are my imagination, my creativity, and my willingness to believe that there’s something better on the other end, so I I’m going to continue moving forward.
VANESSA: Agreed. I think that’s how I’m approaching my entire creative career. Because again, I got here kind of by accident. I was very shy. I did not do theater until college. And even then I had no clue what I was doing. In fact, I studied costuming because I knew how to sew and that’s where I found myself because I had no clue what I was doing. But I think there’s something about the journey that is worth it. And if you have a dream and if you have a passion, follow that thread, just keep going. Yeah.
MAREN: Exactly. Exactly. So you, your mom was an op, is an opera singer? Is still. Yeah, awesome. I actually, I didn’t know that. I can’t believe I didn’t know that!
VANESSA: I mean, she, she, I always say, like, she’s an opera singer. Because she is! She studied music. She has her Masters in music. That’s her whole life, but she’s a registrar. Her entire career is as a university registrar. So, she, I think I appreciate her as an artist more so now as an adult, trying to lead my own creative life, than when I was younger.
Because I can watch her life story, which is an artist – it could have been the story of a dream deferred. And it still, it sometimes it is. I think some, she would consider herself as somebody with a dream deferred, who had big ideas about singing in Europe and becoming a worldwide opera star. But it didn’t happen for her that way. But she didn’t stop singing.
She still has all, she still has her voice, which is what’s great about singing, is that nobody can take your voice away from you. And she still has music. And it shows up in her life in different ways. And, and she gets to use her talents in different situations.
She’s found church to be her avenue and her venue that brings her the most joy and feeds her soul the best. And, like, that for her will be her Carnegie Hall. And I think she’s fine with that now. So I, I, I’m very appreciative to have that model, because sometimes I get down on myself being like, where’s my Carnegie Hall? Or, like, I have these giant aspirations. And then I’m like, Oh, you know, maybe I don’t have to put this pressure on myself.
My idea of what success is might not look like a traditional idea of success. And that’s going to be fine. Maybe I only put out three works that I really like in my life and the rest of it is dedicated to, like, living on a farm. And that’s a perfectly fine artist’s career. I can whip it out at, my creativity , in any scenario I want. Whatever’s valid. But you have to define what success is for yourself and what you’re willing to sacrifice or not. And maybe that’s what I’ve learned so far.
MAREN: Oh my gosh. Amen. Seriously.
So, so since your mom’s an opera singer, I assume you’ve been to an opera.
VANESSA: Once! And not with her. I’ve only been to an opera once. I went, I think I just went to like Opera Phila, something from Opera Philadelphia, like, maybe two years ago. And. Yeah.
MAREN: I was probably on the stage. Very likely. I don’t know.
VANESSA: Right I know exac – I don’t even remember what opera it was, I really don’t. Which is so strange because, because I love classical music and I watch a lot of videos. Like, I just watch people sing on YouTube. But I rarely ever go to the opera. And I’m like, the opera and theater are, I mean, sometimes I’m like opera is better theater. Opera is so big and vivacious and it has so much life. It’s so vivacious that, you know, we’re talking about the Fräulein Maria “hills are alive” type of thing. And I’m like, oh, opera is where it’s at. Like, opera has the vision and the aesthetic and the really bringing the world as we know it to life in a new way.
There’s just lots to learn there that I’m – working with you is exciting because I’m like, ah, I have an in!
MAREN: I always find it so interesting about operas and opera plots.
Usually the opera plots are very, very simple, even though the opera lasts for like three hours, you know? You read the synopsis. It’s like you know, so-and-so comes on. They fall in love. There’s something standing in the way of them, and then she dies.
But like in the middle, like the, in order to make that over the top, you have to bring in all of this music and bombastic stuff on this energy and these emotions. Somebody can spend 10 minutes singing about the fact that they lost a ring, you know? And, and have it be like, oh my God! Like that’s the end of the world! You know?
VANESSA: It’s true. Like one phrase is just repeated the entire aria.
But isn’t that’s so great? Of like the essence of emotion is what I think opera gets to the heart of. In theater, I think it can get a little caught up in the words or a little caught up purely in the spectacle. Whereas I feel like opera is like, you know, we’re just gonna focus. We’re just gonna focus on one element. We’re focused on one part of the scenario and like hype that up to the 10th degree, really interesting approach for telling a story.
MAREN: Uh, yeah, but I mean, and that’s really why I love to like marry or find that intersection between opera and romance novels, because both of them find this sort of, like, the extra, you know? The stuff that, in our inner worlds, that stuff is big. You know? Like fear and love and hate and, and anger and, and joy, are all inside much, much, much bigger than we show each other on a daily basis.
VANESSA: For sure. Definitely. Yeah. I’m reading something you gave me, man. I wish I could remember the names. I just, Oh, what is it called? I don’t remember it, but it’s great. It’s exactly the type of reading that I need in a very stressful week is just stories about women who don’t want to get married, but they are secretly in love and, um, are fighting against it. And I was like, Ooh, I like this drama.
MAREN: Awesome. I can’t remember what I gave you, but that’s awesome.
VANESSA: You were like, here’s some additional reading.
MAREN: That’s right. That’s right. I gave you like a bunch of romance novels, right? Like, Oh, Yes. Oh my God. Great. Oh, I’m so glad you’re you’re enjoying–
VANESSA: They, they’ve come in handy. They, they found, I found the right time to employ them.
MAREN: Excellent. Oh, all right. Well, let’s see, what else do we have here? Oh, tell me one good thing 2020 has brought. Cause I know 2020 has kind of been a dumpster fire. For everybody.
VANESSA: Definitely. It is, I am a person of silver linings. I try to find them wherever. So I, you know, I’m in self-reflective mode. So I’m like, I’m like, what is that? Um, but I do think that 2020 has forced me to be honest about my intentions, especially in relation to work and relationships. It’s forced me to define, like, what do I want to spend my time doing? Who do I want to spend it around? Yeah. 2020 is just made me a little bit more – I was, I was definitely on a hamster wheel before 2020. I felt like I was on a rollercoaster that was never ending.
And I kind of liked it, to be honest. I felt like I was doing something, and that was the work, but was like not thinking and just going after opportunities and just saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But 2020, you know, there was really nothing to say yes to. There were some things like, you know, like your project and some other projects that I had this year, but all of those were very intentional. I was like, Oh yes, this is meaningful. I should pursue this. Or, or I’m like, oh, this is actually not good for me. And I do not have the energy or emotional capacity to, like, take this kind of a project on. Saying no was surprisingly easier just because 2020 put a lot of restrictions in my way. So I, I couldn’t say yes to everything. I just couldn’t. I didn’t have time. I didn’t have resources. I couldn’t actually just say yes. So I had to be really strategic about what I wanted.
And the same goes for relationships, you know, like there was only so much that I was willing, you know, like, who am I actually gonna risk going outside for, to like, say hi to? Who do I actually need to keep in touch with and want to keep in touch with, that isn’t going to drain my energy? Those are all things that 2020 forced me to look at in a way that I don’t think I would have even attempted to, if it were not for a pandemic.
MAREN: That sounds so liberating.
VANESSA: Yeah, I think so. I think I’m really excited actually about 2021, because now I’m coming from a place of slight clarity? And I’m like, oh, I wonder what the year could be if I am more intentional about the choices that I make. And I’m curious how that’s going to pan out for me. I hope good.
MAREN: So, what are you working on creatively? What’s your next project?
VANESSA: You know, I mean, this is my like rip-the-bodice-open type of moment. I really feel it. So I am like, oh, I think I need to do some of my own projects. I have a screenplay in mind that I want to write. I kind of just want to get back in my sewing studio and just start making some clothes. So like these, these are like professional goals of like, oh yeah, there’s some directors I want to work with and other things like that.
But I’m actually much more excited about just getting into my own zone and making my own work that’s meaningful to me, instead of like giving my energy out to other people. Which I love to do. I love hopping on other people’s projects. But I need to give myself some time to like, do my own thing. So that’s what I’m excited for.
MAREN: Totally, totally. And you should! You know? Like, I definitely want to see some of those projects. First of all, I would love to see a Vanessa Ogbuehi creation, like a, uh, some kind of –
VANESSA: Some historical creation? I think there is some Regency stuff happening that I can promise everyone. There will be some Regency stuff happening. Some 18th century stuff happening.
MAREN: Will, will there be a hobby horse?
VANESSA: Will there be a–? There might be. There could be a hobby horse. I want one in the background as like a little friend to encourage me. And to ride around. These are the big questions. The people want to know.
MAREN: Well, I am like, this has just been so wonderful, and I feel like there’s so much ahead of us. For The Bodice Ripper Project, you know, we are not done
VANESSA: Agreed.
MAREN: For those of you listening to the podcast, the season is going to be different, but even after this second season, I hope to have a third season. And I also really hope to have a Bodice Ripper 2.0 live show. You know, it’d be really great to do it live.
VANESSA: Fingers crossed.
MAREN: Yeah. And we’ll see what that looks like. And it’s all a big, huge adventure. And I am very happy to be on that adventure with you, Vanessa.
VANESSA: Oh, I’m so excited to be on the adventure with you, my creative collaborator.
MAREN: Yay. All right. So if people want to follow you or see what cool bodice-ripping type of activity you are doing, uh, how can they do that?
VANESSA: The best place to find me is on Instagram at heytherenessy. Hey, there, Nessy, N E S S Y. And I post there frequently enough. I hope to post more, but that is the best place to find me as I go through my weird creative adventures.
MAREN: Awesome. Awesome. I am so pleased to have you on, thank you so much.
VANESSA: Of course!
MAREN: And I hope you have a wonderful day.
VANESSA: Thanks!
Well, there, you have it.
Join me next episode, in which I continue the adventures of Marguerite de la Marck in A Flemish Flame.
His eyes met hers, and Marguerite’s breath caught in her throat. His gaze was so serious but there was something else there as well: possessiveness? She felt him squeeze her elbow ever so slightly, and her heart fluttered. The tingling sensation between her legs was now a throbbing demand, and she had to fight the urge to lean forward and surrender herself to him, body and soul.
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The Bodice Ripper Project is a production of Compassionate Creative, and was conceived and written by me, Maren Montalbano. The interview was edited by Katie Janner. The theme music was written by yours truly. If you liked what you heard, I invite you to give this podcast a 5-star rating – you think it doesn’t make a difference, but it does! – and I’ll see you next time.